High Pressure Oil Pump / Top End Oil Change
#17
01-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Well I didnt even have to finish my test to see what the "real" deal is. I pulled pint after pint into 16 oz.arrowhead drinking bottles & refilling with the same amount each time to keep from a overflow. & after 4, the oil was still the same, BLACK! Just like the crank case that needs a change.Then I decided to just keep filling the res & it NEVER over filled. It's more than obviouse that the system recurculates & does it pretty fast. Looking in the little filler hole, the oil was 1/4 or so from the top. Pour in another pint & it's still the same. The return rout is at the top of the res, & the "sump" pump is what's pushing it around, NOT the high pressure pump. This is what I came up with & don't understant how anyone can have black oil in that res after a oil change unless your return gally is blocked, or there's a mechanical part involved in alowing the return that goes bad. So now I know & I don't have to waste any time ever doing that again. Now the question is, do some motors have a oil return problem that lets the dirty oil stew up there? I know mine is fine.
#18
01-17-2010, 06:26 PM
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#19
01-17-2010, 07:34 PM
I've been searching the net for a few days on this subject & no matter what, you have to take peoples statements at face value. One guy said he "read" in a International or Navistar 7.3 manuel that the high pressure is a seperate deal & needs to be changed. I read about how the oil gets into the res through a 1 way check valve, & thats great. NOBODY has givin a clear description ov a return path. Going past the injector & drain back to the sump doesnt sound rite. In fact any return path being pumped with 400 + PSI sounds wrong. As far as pulling a "plug" to see the large amount of oil flow & saying that proves that it recurculates is just nuts. You just gave it a place to go. A return after the high pressure is built would screw the pressure up. Just a few thousanths of a leak in the pump gears is enough to screw your pressure. It for sure doesn't have a drain at the bottom, or thr res would be dry every start up. The guy here who had clean (250 mile) oil on the dip & then the res was (coal black) makes me think the fat bald guy on you tube might have a point. In 250 miles NO oil in the motor should be black, weather you see it on a dip stick or in a glass jar.(apples to apples). I'm ready for a oil change real soon. I'm close to 5,000 & thinking of changing the top res now, knowing it will be black & nasty. Then in a few days I'll do the main change & re-check the top res. If it does circulate it will be BLACK & full of 5,000 mile oil again. If it's still clean & I have nasty 5,000 mile oil in the rest of my system, then MY mind will be made up. I don't need to send a sample to anyone at that point. Clean is clean & black is dirty. If anyone cares, I'll post my results. I don't claim to know anything or have specific training, but I have see more than enough "experts" in different fields that had things soooo wrong. I like to see things for my self & or see / read technical data.(not aftermarket sales data)
Ok, I'll help you out. First, here is a few diagrams of the HPOP system and how the oil flows:
Next, here's something you can try. You can actually FILL UP THE CRANKCASE by pouring oil into the HPOP reservoir. Go ahead, try it. You're going to pull oil out of the reservoir anyway. When you go to fill it back up, keep dumping in quart after quart after quart. Tell us what starts to happen on the dipstick. Tell us how far you can get the oil level to rise.
#20
01-17-2010, 07:51 PM
Oh wait, so you mean to tell us that you have no clue how the HPOP system works, yet you're going to go off on a rant and lecture us about it?
Ok, I'll help you out. First, here is a few diagrams of the HPOP system and how the oil flows:
Next, here's something you can try. You can actually FILL UP THE CRANKCASE by pouring oil into the HPOP reservoir. Go ahead, try it. You're going to pull oil out of the reservoir anyway. When you go to fill it back up, keep dumping in quart after quart after quart. Tell us what starts to happen on the dipstick. Tell us how far you can get the oil level to rise.
Ok, I'll help you out. First, here is a few diagrams of the HPOP system and how the oil flows:
Next, here's something you can try. You can actually FILL UP THE CRANKCASE by pouring oil into the HPOP reservoir. Go ahead, try it. You're going to pull oil out of the reservoir anyway. When you go to fill it back up, keep dumping in quart after quart after quart. Tell us what starts to happen on the dipstick. Tell us how far you can get the oil level to rise.
Ahhhh, Pocket, such a way with words..........................
#21
01-17-2010, 07:54 PM
#22
01-17-2010, 07:54 PM
Cargo Master
Next, here's something you can try. You can actually FILL UP THE CRANKCASE by pouring oil into the HPOP reservoir. Go ahead, try it. You're going to pull oil out of the reservoir anyway. When you go to fill it back up, keep dumping in quart after quart after quart. Tell us what starts to happen on the dipstick. Tell us how far you can get the oil level to rise.
#24
01-17-2010, 07:59 PM
Well if the oil does run out of the injectors back to the pan, it's not the only way it gets there. There's a return gally 1/4 " from the top of the res. That's the only way it was flowing into the pan while I was filling mine up since the engine wasnt running & injectors arn't pumping. Plus the injectors are way below the res & if they could flow without running, then the res would always drain. Bottom line is, the oil doesn't need to be changed in the res. Just do a oil change like normal. At least on mine it' slike that. Who knows if there's problems, or im proper gaskets that block the "low" pressure return gally. Don't know & don't care. Mine is fine.
#26
01-17-2010, 08:15 PM
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If you're going to change from Rotella 15-40 Dino oil to 5-40 Synthetic should you try and suck out the Dino oil from the HPOP Res.? Will that small amount of 15-40 hurt anything to mix with the Synthetic? I'm asking because I'm switching to the Rotella 5-40 Syn. on the next change.
Thanks,
Michael
Thanks,
Michael
#27
01-17-2010, 08:23 PM
NEWB Still learning
It is amazing what a guy can learn here. I have been reading about the 7.3 and kept seeing HPOP parts listed and discussed, but no one seemed to explain the acronym. I happen to find this thread and see not only an explanation of the acronym, but an explanation of the system with awesome diagrams. Thank you for sharing Gentlemen. By the way, as a new user, I would not post to disagree with something stated by a senior user who actually knows about the trucks because of more experience. It is not a good way to make friends with guys that I will depend on soon enough to learn how to fix my truck.
#28
01-17-2010, 08:23 PM
If you're going to change from Rotella 15-40 Dino oil to 5-40 Synthetic should you try and suck out the Dino oil from the HPOP Res.? Will that small amount of 15-40 hurt anything to mix with the Synthetic? I'm asking because I'm switching to the Rotella 5-40 Syn. on the next change.
Thanks,
Michael
Thanks,
Michael
#29
01-17-2010, 08:46 PM
Well if the oil does run out of the injectors back to the pan, it's not the only way it gets there. There's a return gally 1/4 " from the top of the res. That's the only way it was flowing into the pan while I was filling mine up since the engine wasnt running & injectors arn't pumping. Plus the injectors are way below the res & if they could flow without running, then the res would always drain. Bottom line is, the oil doesn't need to be changed in the res. Just do a oil change like normal. At least on mine it' slike that. Who knows if there's problems, or im proper gaskets that block the "low" pressure return gally. Don't know & don't care. Mine is fine.
It seems to me you kinda stepped on you dick here. a little apology to Pocket for basicly saying he didn't know what he was talking about would go along way. I don't mind when a guy makes a mistake, but own up to it.
stick around, you might learn something.
Barney
Barney
#30
01-17-2010, 09:22 PM
Elaborate. Are you saying that I was wrong & the oil doesn't flow down through a galley. Are you saying it ONLY gets back into the pan through the injector rout? Your last post was un called for & had no mechanical information, it was just rude & un founded. READ MY FIRST POST VON BRAUN, I never claimed to (KNOW ANYTHING). & I will learn about mt PSD, but not frome rude remarks. Maybe you can tell me what the crankshaft on a top fuel motor is made from & why. Or why you use aluminum rods when you run blown alc, & nitro. I'll learn about my PSD, but I do know other things.