Ken,

give us old timers more detail...

I tried logging on... won't let me

I tried to open new account... I'm already there ???

help?

john

 

At this time > All Club FTE memberships had expired in March.

You will need to renew your membership to gain access to you web site.

 

It wouldn't work for me no matter what I tried.

If I try the first box it gives me an error for an improper logon.

If I fill out the second section it says I already exist so I can't create an account...

FUBAR

 

Two questions:

1) I signed up as a new user, and paid my dues through PayPal, but I still can't get in. I assume that's because you haven't finished processing my payment. Will you notify us (via my current e-mail address) when the application is complete?

2) It said when I signed up that I was getting a "special car salesman's discount rate" of ONLY $89.95 for a 6-month subscription. I would have thought that, considering what a pain I've been, you would have been tempted to charge me MORE. Is anyone else getting this kind of discount?................

 

A couple of notes:

1. If you have an existing account and can't get in, email me the password you wish to use. You can reset it after logging in. Not all passwords migrated to the new system successfully.

2. Paypal is in the process of verifying a checking account setup for Club FTE. Our server's IPN interface with Paypal won't work until they verify the account. Should be done on 5-21-2003 or 5-22-2003. The system should automatically let you in as soon as that's done.

 

What if you don't use PayPal or want to use something else? I have a PayPal account but I am dropping it soon because of their service attitude.

I have a USPS ePay account but I am not sure how it works for a commercial user. It costs me a buck per transaction but it is free for the receiver account.

 

I have to use Paypal for Club FTE instant payments. Paypal has IPN (Instant Payment Notification) which is required for the system.

Basically, simply being able to accept a payment isn't enough. We've been able to process credit cards for years through our merchant account (Wells-Fargo). The problem is that with the old system for every order:

1. we had to process the payment
2. put a copy into our books
3. setup your Club FTE web account
4. turn on your Club FTE web account
5. set up an email address

Then monthly we had to check for renewals, send out renewal notices and follow-up with deactivation or renewal based on whether payment was made. I ended up losing money having to pay staff to handle all this. With Paypal IPN its all automated: setup, payment, activation, renewal and when needed, deactivation. The point is for me to work less, not more!

Some people don't like Paypal because of their arbitration policy. Abritration is only needed when a merchant doesn't live up to their end of the transaction.

So the question is:do you think FTE is going to rip you for $15.95 or $5? Just like with eBay, if you don't like the terms of an auction's payment you don't have to buy. Its all we're going to take for now for online payments. You can call-in payment information at 770-806-1955.

 

I have no reason to believe that any merchant is going to rip me off. I have even less of a concern about FTE. My concern is with PAyPAl itself.

My most recent problem with PayPal is the fact that they did not have a statement in their help page about the 30 day limitation on arbitration. So when I followed the instructions on their help page and telephoned and emailed the vendor etc etc it went past the 30 days. It wasn't until I actually filed a complaint at 36 days that they notified me about the 30 day limit. The 30 day limit is buried in their user agreement somewhere amongst all the legalese but that didn't do me any good at the time. All their service reps would do is nastily point out that it was buried there in the user agreement... Of course with the slightest problem any web transaction can go past 30 days so even their 30 day limit is inadequate. I didn't like the way they handled it so strike three.

Their repeated updates to the user agreement requiring 3 hours of reading and study every time it was updated was strike two. Ebay has a nice system that describes the changes that have been made, offers links to the changes, and also has links to the entire document etc as required! EBAy has a good system that requires about 30 minutes to check out so it is not bad. Some people might ask why I check these agreements out and read them. All I have to say is that I have been burned a few times by not reading the fine print in legal contracts so I read them now.

Strike one was the time they defaulted my payment choice back to my bank account after I edited the notes section of a payment form. I checked my edits and since I had already checked the rest of the transaction I did not re-check the entire form. I missed that they had edited the form for me... I was PO'd to say the least because the transaction was large enough to cause a problem with another scheduled payment (the mortgage) that was going out the next day. I had to scramble to transfer funds. PayPal's response to my query about why the payment form was changed without me expressly editing that portion was: "that I clicked the submit button..." They could not see that changing part of a form without the user's input was wrong. I was taught that was wrong and a NO NO when I was a programmer. PayPal wants the transaction to come from your bank account so they slip it to you. When it is the other way around and you change from the bank to a CC they ask you whether you want to make that change. A little double standard here.

PayPal has made no attempt to address these concerns or made any apologies for their omissions or actions so I feel they do not deserve my business and I will no longer do business with them.

The USPS has an ePay system that is easier to set up...

Ken, you would not be waiting for your account confirmation now... It is all done electronically with ePay in a few seconds. None of that mickey mouse garbage about making deposits to your account and then you having to wait to confirm the amounts. EPAy is better but not many people accept it yet. I believe they have payment notification but it is not "instant" in the same sense as PayPal. When you pay someone with PayPal the transfer is not "instant" either. They have a fallback CC to charge a sum to if the bank funds are not available for transfer. So they can make it APPEAR to be an "instant" payment. With ePay the transaction goes thru the normal banking channels and takes a few days. But I do believe you get an "instant" notification.

PayPal loosing my business is of no concern to them but it is the only way as a consumer that I have of expressing my displeasure with their arrogant actions.

I can make my first FTE payment thru PayPal when you get the system working properly. After thast some other form of payment will be required or I just won't be able to "buy". As a merchant this is your choice but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. I see far too many people that dislike PayPal, and there is an alternative, an alternative that costs the merchant nothing unlike PayPal.

 

The web edit system Club FTE has been using for 2+ years has support for Paypal IPN and nothing else. When other services start developer networks and ease of interface like Paypal then perhaps the company I buy the software from will support it but until then there nothing I can do. I will not kill myself spending more time writing a payment interface for a package whose code I'm not familiar with. The point of the system is less work for me, not more. Its going to take enough time to get the forums interfaced with the system but at least its PHP instead of Perl.

There's nothing broken with the current payment interface. It works. The money was transferred and my software correctly held off turning on the accounts until the money was deposited. The login problems have nothing to do with Paypal (its happening with non-expired accounts as well). It merely because not all the passwords migrated when I upgraded the version.

You have a choice:

1. Use Paypal
2. Call in an order
3. Don't register/renew

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to make any particular choice.

 

I am not twisting your arm to use any other program besides PayPal. I understand that it would be impossible to even attempt to code any changes yourself. I personally will always renew as long as any other method is available in the future. I can use PayPal now but next time I will need to use one of the other alternatives you have listed.

I would hope that you make a request as a user of this software for them to consider supporting other payment interfaces. I certainly can't make that suggestion to them. You may not have much pull but I have 10,000 times less.

I see this choice as similar to Microsoft (PayPal) -vs- the "other" systems like ePay. I am just glad that somebody at eBay seems to have some common sense instead of acting like the 500# Gorilla ALL the time. They can still get heavy handed at times...
I can only hope that some of that common sense filters down to PayPal rather than have the arrogance that PayPal shows rise to the top.

 

I requested Verisign support from them about 3 months ago. Hopefully we'll see something from them. I think we're going to be seeing changes with Paypal..... there's a class action lawsuit pending right now!

 

From what little I've seen, the problems with PayPal are predominantly on the seller/ merchant side of things. A buyer stiffs a seller on eBay with a bad credit card, PayPal charges it back to the merchant at which time it's too late for the seller to do anything. As a consumer, I've had no problems with PayPal, but I can see from some of the posts at PayPalSucks.com that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I hope I never have a problem with them, 'cause it sure don't look like fun. Again, from what I've seen, Ken has a lot more at risk with PayPal than any of the ClubFTE members. And what is it with PayPal always trying to get my checking account number? That makes me REAL nervous, and it's info they'll never get from me.

 

PayPal uses your checking account to verify your identity and also because they make more money pulling funds from your bank account on a float. At least that is what I have heard. They use two little deposits into your account that you have to tell them the amounts of to verify your checking account. I have had zero problems so far with their access of my bank account except for that problem I mentioned above.

USPS ePay works with your bank account exclusively, no credit cards, and they verify your ID by asking a question that is available thru your credit reports. The ePay system is almost instantaneous and works well. I trust the integrity of the US Postal Service a lot more than a greedy corporate concern. Their customer service reps have been an absolute pleasure to work with.

Give them a try:

http://www.usps.com/money/welcome.htm

Ken- Is there a website for that class action suit? Or any other info?