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-   -   5.4L 3V with miss, rough idle and codes P0340, P0344, P0345, and P0349 (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1060865-5-4l-3v-with-miss-rough-idle-and-codes-p0340-p0344-p0345-and-p0349.html)

Deegan Pope 04-25-2019 06:04 PM

I have replaced my oil pump with the Melling high volume pump and added some Lucas, but i'm still getting P0012, P0340, P0340 & P0345. I also replaced the phasers and timing kit, the SVT solenoid, one of the cam position sensors (and maybe both). If the 10-40 is simply increasing pressure by lowering viscosity the pump should have solved this and the lucas too. Glad that worked for you, but i'm sill at a loss

F150Torqued 04-25-2019 11:05 PM

@Deegan Pope the codes you are reporting --- AFTER a timing job and replacing CPS sensors narrows your problem to just a couple of _ugly_ possibilities.

The P034x series have 'horrible' and mostly misleading OBDII DTC descriptions. But they are 'KEY' and should be trusted. The PCM is right there next to the problem as if you were there with an oscilloscope.

The signal from the CPS does not generate an interrupt signal to the PCM. The PCM 'polls' the CPS sensor at the point where the Phaser finger should be passing one of the Phaser fingers. If it does NOT sense the finger passing sensor (durring cranking) -- BINGO - P0340 or P0345, as appropriate. Wiring problems, weak battery, dragging starter can cause 'noise' on wiring and result in this code. --- HENCE the DTC misleading wording of 'Circuit problem'.

But the PCM will witness the identical condition if you got timing off. AND if you used cheap after market Phasers - many of them exhibit early failure of the internal locking pin to capture the phaser and hold cam at base zero retard during cranking. And you will get P0340 or P0345.

The P0344 and P0349 results from the same thing - when the PCM polls (looks at CPS) expecting to see a phaser finger pass by --- and it intermittently IS or IS NOT there, BINGO - P0344 or P0345, as appropriate. Your P0012 is different -BUT- related. The literal interpretation is the CAM was more than five degrees retarded than the degrees retard commanded by the PCM - for more than five seconds. Once the code sets - it 'sticks' until cleared or there TWO drive cycles 'without' the condition repeating.

Both those can occur at or close to startup before your oil pressure comes up enough to push cams to base and 'hold' them there. That happens often around here with 'shi**y' Chinese and NON OEM phasers. (This MIGHT POSSIBLY be determined by removing VCs and observe Phaser 5th finger position after 'bumping' starter a few times. - Extra Phaser finger should point straight at the "L" mark with cam fixed at base timing where it has to be during cranking).

If that test checks out, I would be VERY suspicious the timing was FOBARED.

redfishtd 04-26-2019 01:02 PM

F150t is right check your phasers . Pulling valve covers and looking at the middle finger at rest should line up directly behind that finger. The plate should be parallel to the rest of the phaser . If its aftermarket it will be bad even if it isn't now. Sorry this is a hard lesson ,we have no idea why aftermarket can't get it right . And of course you cleaned out oil pan and oil pu .That plastic turns into fibers and plugs oil pu slam up .Plastic never breaks down ,you must remove it . We have timing diagrams and helpful hints if you go back in .
Its easy to get screwed up especially left and right designations . Drivers is left ,passenger is right /don't use left and right designation plus you have to have cam lobes correct on 1 and 5 .
Sometimes it can be the simple things that get us messed up .
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1541f18608.png

Hoperah Breanna 02-14-2020 06:15 PM

Hello, I have a 2006 Ford F150 XLT 5.4L.... Im new to this forum but I am having some trouble figuring out the problem with my truck. I have had it to a garage several times and starting to get frustrated. The problem I am having is, about 2 weeks ago I had my engine light checked, hooked up to an analyzer. It threw the code for Camshaft sensor bank 2.. Now I changed it 4 days ago, and still no difference. My truck would reach 70km going up hill and start to jolt like its losing power. After changing the sensor I can not do 60km now. It idles fine, a little loud due to manifold leak. It does not doing it when driving around town (under 60km), or going up hill at those low speeds, or when on a flat surface. I dont know if some vibration is normal or not, this is my first truck. I have been told to change the spark plugs, and coils (by a Ford Dealer mechanic) I had this problem before when I bought the truck, Coil 2 was gone and I changed it, never had problems after that until now. I have also been told it could be the ECM but a mechanic at a Ford Dealership thinks it is unlikely. My local mechanic hasnt been much help, he claimed to check the wires but Im not sure as I was working at the time of the appointment. It also got worse after he changed the sensor. Please any help would be greatly Aappreciated, Im already $3000 in the hole with this truck and its my only vehicle. Thank you!

Forestrat 07-26-2020 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by drlooper (Post 13593012)
Hi All, Im new to the board and just bought an 07 F150 FX4. It has a 5.4l and a code for a bad Camshaft Position Sensor. I pulled them both out and the one one the right has the end rubbed off a little. I put a screw magnet in the hole the sensor goes in and you can move an item back and forth about a inch or so.

Any idea what happened here? Is there a keeper for what ever shaft is moving? I looked in the forum and didn't see any post related to this issue. I'm guessing someone had it apart and didn't put it back together correctly.

Any help would be appreciated.

Daniel

may be the phaser plate that would be the only thing moving in the sensor hole

redfishtd 07-26-2020 06:36 PM

That sensor is looking at the metal middle finger of the three prongs on the phaser . Phasers work very hard . you can't use any kit or aftermarket phaser . If its in a kit then its probably bad aftermarket no matter who says theirs are good .
Phasers do malform and get cockeyed so yes they could hit sensor . You can tell with the valve covers off looking down . if it looks crooked its bad ,if at rest the middle finger of the three should line up with the timing mark L. But the chain can hit the sensor also . Once the plastic guide broken the whipping of the chain even eats on the alum timing cover . This is caused by many things blown gaskets on plastic tensioners , stretched chains ,low oil pressure etc . These long chains are a problem .Once the whipping starts everything gets stressed . Best to change out plastic tensioner with the old style metal ratcheting from melling - no gaskets to blow out It holds tension even when oil pressure not up
Blaming the sensors is just like blaming the blood pressure machine in your doc;s office or your lab reports ,usually they are reporting a bad situation . Don't shoot the doctor either. 95 % of the time its not a bad sensor . You could have a bent finger on phaser so it may not pick it up . bend it back forward . If its a distorted phaser stop right there . Practically all manufactures have trouble with phasers .Don't even wish a bmw or gm problems with their cyl deactivation circuit on your self .

F150Torqued 07-29-2020 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by redfishtd (Post 19401431)
...
...
Blaming the sensors is just like blaming the blood pressure machine in your doc;s office or your lab reports ,usually they are reporting a bad situation . Don't shoot the doctor either.
...

Just like my wife blaming the bathroom scale. "It's WRONG. I don't weigh THAT MUCH!!!!"

yonton 09-14-2020 12:10 PM

Same
 

Originally Posted by ikaro (Post 13779307)
Have all the codes mentioned above and symptoms, plus codes /;'NJHhhhhhhhh and also NO Transmission Temp (don´t know if this has to do with anything or just another bad sensor unit)<O:p</O:p
I have replaced everything new (cam sensor, spark plugs, coils, vtc solenoid, new ECM) , the cam phasers where not replace, instead I pulled out ones from a perfectly running engine, installed them but had the same issue. At the end went and perform an engine overhaul. In cold starts, engine runs normal…. After a while once it starts getting warm again it start running rough and even stalling. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I’m out of options; waste lots of money (thought that the overhaul will be my solution) ; my mechanic is going nowhere now. <O:p></O:p>

I have the exact same issue, P0012 P0022 plus 340,344,336,349. rough engine especially when warm.

DEXTERWISE 10-18-2020 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by redfishtd (Post 19401431)
That sensor is looking at the metal middle finger of the three prongs on the phaser . Phasers work very hard . you can't use any kit or aftermarket phaser . If its in a kit then its probably bad aftermarket no matter who says theirs are good .
Phasers do malform and get cockeyed so yes they could hit sensor . You can tell with the valve covers off looking down . if it looks crooked its bad ,if at rest the middle finger of the three should line up with the timing mark L. But the chain can hit the sensor also . Once the plastic guide broken the whipping of the chain even eats on the alum timing cover . This is caused by many things blown gaskets on plastic tensioners , stretched chains ,low oil pressure etc . These long chains are a problem .Once the whipping starts everything gets stressed . Best to change out plastic tensioner with the old style metal ratcheting from melling - no gaskets to blow out It holds tension even when oil pressure not up
Blaming the sensors is just like blaming the blood pressure machine in your doc;s office or your lab reports ,usually they are reporting a bad situation . Don't shoot the doctor either. 95 % of the time its not a bad sensor . You could have a bent finger on phaser so it may not pick it up . bend it back forward . If its a distorted phaser stop right there . Practically all manufactures have trouble with phasers .Don't even wish a bmw or gm problems with their cyl deactivation circuit on your self .

wao! That distorted phaser, got me rethinking. While I was turning my engine by hand with the passenger side valve cover removed, I mistakenly noticed the phaser finger plate, moved independently off of the can sprocket itself. I have a p0340 code now. Probably this could be my engine's problem too.

DEXTERWISE 10-18-2020 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by yonton (Post 19479448)
I have the exact same issue, P0012 P0022 plus 340,344,336,349. rough engine especially when warm.

i did solved the p0012 codes by replacing the VCTs. But now, I got a p0340 code.

o6S1D9e 01-23-2022 10:53 PM

Can a CPS sensor damage phaser if hit it were struck hard enough?
 

Originally Posted by redfishtd (Post 19401431)
That sensor is looking at the metal middle finger of the three prongs on the phaser . Phasers work very hard . you can't use any kit or aftermarket phaser . If its in a kit then its probably bad aftermarket no matter who says theirs are good .
Phasers do malform and get cockeyed so yes they could hit sensor . You can tell with the valve covers off looking down . if it looks crooked its bad ,if at rest the middle finger of the three should line up with the timing mark L. But the chain can hit the sensor also . Once the plastic guide broken the whipping of the chain even eats on the alum timing cover . This is caused by many things blown gaskets on plastic tensioners , stretched chains ,low oil pressure etc . These long chains are a problem .Once the whipping starts everything gets stressed . Best to change out plastic tensioner with the old style metal ratcheting from melling - no gaskets to blow out It holds tension even when oil pressure not up
Blaming the sensors is just like blaming the blood pressure machine in your doc;s office or your lab reports ,usually they are reporting a bad situation . Don't shoot the doctor either. 95 % of the time its not a bad sensor . You could have a bent finger on phaser so it may not pick it up . bend it back forward . If its a distorted phaser stop right there . Practically all manufactures have trouble with phasers .Don't even wish a bmw or gm problems with their cyl deactivation circuit on your self .





My bank 2 CPS pigtail got whacked while the PSP pulley was being removed so much so that it was damaged beyond further the usage. This was a part of a larger project that included the manifolds, magnaflow OEM grade quad cats, a borla dual exhaust, 4 O2 sensors, Fuel injectors, fuel rail pressure sensor, evap canistor vent assembly and all new PSP and hoses.

After getting it all back together I now have 345, 349, 021, 027 codes.

I've replaced the one damaged pigtail and both CPS's with OEM and the issue remains. (pictured) The only part of the one CPS that's visually damaged is at the connection towards the end of the sleeve. It's cracked with a bit of the red boot pinched/stuck in there.


Mechanic removed the VCT solenoid and valve cover from bank 2 to view the phasers positioning and said it looked fine. To the extent and method used to determined so, I am not aware. I remember him saying that things lined up as they should.

They have used a Mac tools scan tool and ran all sorts of tests that show everything is working fine. He wasn't able to get into the additional pids to monitor the cam phaser timing even though the option was there for choosing to do so on the tool, it just wouldn't read anything, as if it weren't an available pid to read.



Could the impact from the wrench caused enough force to possibly bump and bend an arm on the phaser? how much space is between the sensor and phasor?




In the mean time I'm buying new SP546 plugs tomorrow and installing them. The current plugs are probably close to or over 50k miles so it's time any way. The COPs are just as new and same with the rest of the complete OEM timing job except for the roller followers that i have yet to do. If the plugs dont do the trick then I am going to Ford to beg for help. I have a feeling that they wont help me so if any of you are here in south Texas and know a guy thats experienced with the 5.4 Triton, DM me please!!!!!!
I have been without a vehicle for 3 weeks. Its my daily driver and have had zero known issues for 3+ years besides an exhaust leak between bank 1 and 2 cats before the Ypipe. It wasn't until the manifolds came off that i learned i had a leak at cyl 1. Exhaust vapor had been caked onto that area. It was black. I guess from before the upgraded oil pump/ timing job that area got so hot that it heated the studs so well that those were the only two that broke off during the recent replacement. (thanks lisle tool!)


Over the last 3 years I've been buying all the parts i need to replace that were either old or damaged. I wanted to get all the suspension, manifolds, quad cats, dual exhaust and fuel components installed before doing the roller followers just in case any issues presented themselves. That, and the mechanic didnt have the removal tool. I didn't want to wait for it to be ordered and delivered as this was supposed to be a 2-3 day job that i planned for.

After it was all complete the issues at hand presented themselves in the form of the above codes that weren't there before..




For whatever reason i cannot find the post that talked about how finicky the manifold to cat flange connection, regarding alignment / proper seating. (connections pictured) Maybe it was a video i watched one year! I think i recall hearing or reading that it was advised to seat, evenly align and then to hand tighten the flange first, before the manifolds, with the manifolds only being held in place loosely on the studs. Once a solid and plumb, flush, evenly aligned seal was made at the flanges it was only then that the manifolds could be tightened all the way. Am I imagining things or can any of you shed some light in my direction?




I was there when it got fired up for the first time after the work and heard the nasty hissing and rhythmic clacking that eventually faded away as things heated up. Typical, but damnit, i just paid thousands to get rid of all these sounds / leaks.

There's definitely an exhaust leak (audible) around bank 2 manifold somewhere. A new MLS gasket was also used on this side as per the mechanics suggestion. Should the older style one continue to be used on that side? Ford gave me the old style for bank 2 and new MLS type for the redesigned bank 1 manifold. Does my mechanic know more than Ford on this topic? they didn't redesign bank 2 the least bit and to be honest i cant see the change between the redesigned bank 1 and the original either.

There's also an audible and visible leak between the two MF cats where bank 2 connects with bank 1. Both of those cats are Magnaflow (51744 and 51238) with a clamp and there's still a leak. It baffles me why they wouldn't fit snuggly straight from the factory. As mentioned earlier, this is exactly where i had a leak before i put it in the shop. It's part of the reason i got all new pipes, the old ones couldn't be tightened any more and kept leaking fluid all the time.

Could exhaust leaks cause the codes I'm having? It idles at 510 ish in drive, 600 at park and hesitates a lot when backing up, feels like its going to stall, and does the same going forward for a moment until i get on the gas. Driving down the highway next to jersey barriers while applying gas i can hear the exhaust leak hissing away at lower speeds it sounds like a lawnmower, similar to how it sounded before the timing job, just without the diesel tick sound. Would an exhaust leak i've described cause the pending p0027 on bank 1? The leak between the two cat pipes has been there for years and that code has never shown up before this repair. i bet id have this same problem if i were to have purchased the $4000 cats from ford and been just as confused.


Could bad roller followers trigger the CPS 0345/0349 and finally be showing up only now that I've gotten all new exhaust components? As in, they might have always been an unknown/undiagnosed problem on the verge the verge of presenting itself that's finally starting appearing after making these repairs?


**side note, i cannot believe how incredibly fast both manifolds have become rust ridden, they weren't even on the truck and had started rusting a few days after buying them from Ford. They were gray and looked primo brand new last week! I got new CV axles, OEM, that have done the same thing, just no where near as badly as the manifolds. The CV axles that were 280000 miles old dont have the rust that these new ones have developed already. glad i dont live where it snows every year. jesus.




https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...cc734e0f8d.jpg
cracked CPS connection sleeve. imagine a bunch of pieces of cracked hard plastic all over the floor if youre wondering what the pigtail looked like after impact. =/
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...217a436cd7.jpg
Driver side Bank 1 updated manifold to Cat Flange connection. Should it not be sitting at this angle and instead try to be as flush /plumb with the manifold as possible?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...78ca01ac9b.jpg
Pax Side Bank 2 Manifold to Cat Flange connection. Again, should it not be sitting at this angle and try to be as flush /plumb with the manifold?

o6S1D9e 01-24-2022 03:56 AM

I get to go to bed now and rest easy after watching a video a cpl hours ago. Hooked a shop vac up to the new dual exhaust, sealed it and the other side with Gaff tape and sprayed soapy water onto the Manifold, manifold to cat flange and the bottom flange beneath the drivers seat that connects the two banks of cats together.

I was able to hear the leaking before I got under to look at things. Bubbles galore at the connection beneath the seat, slowly building to larger bubbles.

i couldn't keep the B2 flange wet enough for it to remain wet for any longer than a second or less because there was so much air flowing through the gap that wrapped what appeared to be at least halfway around. I mean, tons of air was coming out.

Bank 1 Manifold to Cat flange wasn't flowing anywhere near as much as B2 was. It remained wet the whole time with slow building bubbles.

I'm getting new spark plugs in the morning and then returning it to the shop that i picked it up from on Saturday to see what they can do about the leaks. I should probably hold off on getting the plugs. They weren't giving me issues to begin with and like the roller followers, it would probably be best to not add any more variables considering the work has been done this time around.

Still pictures are included beneath the below video links.

I have added a link to the video that i uploaded to my YouTube account of the test itself as I was performing it. super technical !






and heres a link to the Youtube video i stumbled upon that probably saved me lots of time, agony and money - It should be FF to the 17 second action mark-

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...837b8e6354.png
Bank 2 Manifold to Cat Flange. view from under the vehicle. The blue line is shadowing the remanence of a spray that cane barely been seen in this freeze frame. You can see that it bounces off the surface and the area is instantly starting to dry from all the air coming out. The arrow is pointing to where you can see it starting to become completely dry before I'm finished with the current squirt.







https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...fa3e65804a.png
B2 Manifold to Cat Flange Leak. id say it dries up within a quarter of a second or possibly half a second later.



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...a34439325e.png
Bank 2 . The blue line is shadowing the remanence of another spray that can barely be seen. The flange cant stay wet with all the air escaping. that entire area dries itself on up within a second or less.




https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...676011a907.png
Bank 2 view from inside the wheel well The yellow arrow indicates where an in frequent larger bubble would appear and burst. The red arrow shows the white bubble trails coat the connection what appears to be all around.





https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...ded7884710.png
Bank 1 Manifold to Cat Flange Leak. It seems like this one goes more than halfway around too with bubbles starting where the yellow arrow is and continuing to the right where it starts to regurgitate bubble after bubble.






https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3aaa9daf76.png
This is where B1 and B2 cat assemblies meet up beneath the drivers seat. I dont know what this is called. Sorry. I noticed fluids dropping beneath this area yesterday. Had the mechanic try to tighten it up with no luck obviously. slow and larger forming bubbles developed here during the test.

anthonywren8 11-17-2022 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by jrbubachmech98 (Post 10250615)
I recently purchased my first Ford pickup. I bought a 2006 F-150 with the 5.4L 3V engine. I have only driven it for about 300 miles so far and am having problems. The engine has 146,000 miles on it. I have read several posts on here about the cam phasers which I believe that I may have some issues with. The engine will run good when cold, on the road, etc. The engine does have a slight ticking after it warms up (cam phasers?). When I come to a stop after the engine is operating temperature, the engine will start to miss and shudder and all 4 above codes come active and are also pending (8 codes in total). All 4 codes are logged at the same time. I have replaced both cam position sensors, both sensor ends and terminals for cam position sensors, checked wiring around rear of engine (does not appear to be rubbed through), all plugs were replaced, and all COP boots are good. Is there anything that can cause these codes that may not be the actual cam position sensors, ie. VTC, COPs, cam phasers? Anyone know what pins the cam position sensors come to on the ECU (so I can ohm the entire wire harness)?

Also, if the engine is missing with the codes active and I rev the engine up it will come back to idle and run great. The engine never dies out, just runs horribly. I have also unplugged each sensor with the engine running which has no effect on the way it runs.

Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Pins 44 and 45.


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